Can you tell your 720 from your 1080??
  • Well, if like me you are a gamer first and a tech head second then the above sounds like a double or triple spin in Tony Hawk or SSX?

    But if I added a p or i after those numbers then would you have the faintest idea what I was on about?

    Well I havent!

    All I know is that they are associated with High Definition Television and the xbox 360 does 720 but the PS3 will do 1080. :huh:

    But I would be most grateful if someone could explain in simple terms what the above means and what benefits it could/should have to me the gamer. And do I have to buy a super expensive TV to gain the benefit? And more importantly - Is it worth it?
  • Nice timing Rory !

    Check out the article we are working on for just this subject:

    PlayStation 3 HDTV Guide

    ...its a work in progress, so there will be changes to it overe time.

    We also have a dedicated discussion area for all things HDTV right here:
  • Give you a hint

    If your buying a new TV make sure it supports both i & p (interlaced & progressive) The specs for a good HDTV and I'm not trying to endorse Sony here is there new Bravia 42" LCDmm+HD (multimedia) it supports 720i, 1024 (pc spec) 1080i, 640p (pc spec) 720p and 1080p. Progressive scan TV's are the best (got that in my head when I was acutally making them for Philips). This TV has been made to work along side the PS3 (when it comes out) and a PC base unit

    Tourist Trophy on the PS2 can support 1080i on a HDTV but also can use progressive scan which will only go upto 720 (due to the technology of the PS2)

    Most of the new PS3 games will start to roll out with the option of 720, 720i, 1080i & 720p and I would expect in 2 years time they will only have games set to 720, 1080i & 1080p

    And to answer Rory's last question

    Yes, HDTV are worth it IF your source of input is capable of outputing HD information.
    eg. HDTV connected upto SKY Digi box - Sling the box & get a SKY HD box. HDTV connected upto Freeview box - Forget the HDTV, if you want to watch only TV stick with your CRT TV.

    Remember when your looking at HDTV in the high street & you think "mmmmmmmmm, good quality" your wrong! they are still using the old RF & SCART connections from a splitter box & the picture quality is bad (in my eye)

    I saw about 7 months ago in Tescos at Wigan a 42" Sony & Samsung LCD HDTV connected up to a HD-DVD player through the HDMI cables along with a SCART lead out of the same player into another HDTV. You can guess which 2 were making me feel nice inside. The other one seemed to have digital ghosting on the edges of people, wording & grass. Grass & Leaves are the best thing to see quality in HD items, you always know if the input source is normal.
  • So I now understand from Jim's article what all the numbers mean.

    And I understand from Chris that I need HD input if I want to watch HD on my HDTV.

    So if I have a PS3 and the HDMI cable I can view my PS3 game in awe.
    And if I have a Sky (or other TV provider) HD box, I can watch CSI:Miami with the drool running down my chin....

    But, if I dont have Sky tv, and my normal tv reception is "average" at best, is it worth buying a HDTV?

    Will my PS3 play on a traditional TV?

    Will I have to wait until analogue is finally switched off in 2013 before a HDTV is genuinely worth it?
  • Rory K STAFF said:
    Will my PS3 play on a traditional TV?

    Well I can actually answer this question. The simple answer is YES! You see the PS3 not only has a HDMI port (allowing you to connect your PS3, via a HDMI cable, to a HDTV) but it also has the ordinary av connector (think it's that connection) that the PS2 has, thus allowing you to play your games on a so called 'normal' tv.
    Obviously you won't be able to see the sweat literally dripping from each of your games characters faces midway trhough a battle of Tekken.
    You won't be able to see the stunning hair detail of your Final Fantasy XIII characters, especially the girls.
    You won't be able to see the true realistic look of your cars in Gran Turismo HD.
    If you can live without ALL THAT then you can make do with an ordinary tv.
    Hope that helps Rory :D
  • Rory, there is a section at the bottom of the article that might interest you... its called:

    Cheapest HTDV
  • I read that bit. I personally would prefer a HDTV though instead of a monitor. I get what you're saying though, even though it doesn't really expain it. You can get small, 19" or so, LCD TVs that are HD ready AND have computer outputs on them.
    If I was to get something like a monitor for my PS3, I'd get one of them. 19" is still not that bad, would prefer about 50" for GTHD and the likes, but gotta make do, right?
  • I now know that when I am shopping for a HDTV that it must at least be 720p, have at least 1 HDMI slot and be reasonably priced.

    If I am looking to get seriously flash then I am looking for a tv that is 1080p and has at least 2 HDMI slots and one DVI connection for my PC.
    This will be a very expensive option for the next couple of years.

    So I dont have much cash and I opt for the 720 tv what am I missing out on over the 1080p?
  • Rory K STAFF said:
    So I dont have much cash and I opt for the 720 tv what am I missing out on over the 1080p?

    Like I said, you miss out on all the graphical superiority of the next-gen consoles (well PS3 and XBOX 360 anyway, not sure about Wii).
    Basically you'll get games that look like PS2 games do now.
    I can't really think of a different way to expain it.
    OK how about, you'll end up haveing a super expensive PS2 without a HDTV. Er does that make any sense? :confused:
  • heh, wow.... It's not exactly that simple. You need to also think of the size of the tv you're getting, along with the distance you sit away from the tv. 1080 is basically pushing it for things that you can see physically, meaning if it went any higher, you wouldn't notice the difference. That's just like when Sony was in the 120 fps mode, when in reality, humans can not view things at 120 fps (frames per second), so it'd be a waste of effort.

    Basically, words will not be able to explain this to you. Go into a store and look at the different setups.... The 1080p ones are breathtaking, but really, you only have like 10 feet of play with those tvs on where you sit, unless you're going to invest in like a 100" tv, which might be a bit costly.

    Things to keep in mind, component cables are capable of outputs up to 1080i, so playing even on a Component-ready tv gets you a very good picture quality. The PS3 games are being created with 1080p at the top of their lists, but they will still look next-gen on a SDTV.... That's like saying watching a DVD on a black and white tv would make it VHS quality. The source isn't changing, only the type of output, which will still be of a high quality.

    Will there be a difference? Oh, of course.... but it won't be like playing PS2 quality games. Keep in mind that the PSOne didn't have component, but not using it on the PS2 doesn't make the games PSOne quality.
  • Thank you madhtr for clearing up that last bit. After reading your post, I'm not as discouraged. I am looking towards getting the PS3 but not sure if I'm ready to shell out for HDTV as well. Up until this point, I was being led to believe you would be wasting money buying a PS3 without HDTV.

    All the technical aspects are a bit over my head at times, as I'm sure it will be for many of the other folks reading this as well. The article clears it up some and Tiff's comments helped too, but I still don't know which is better, interlaced or progressive?

    If I've got this correct (which is highly doubtful) it looks like the games coming out will be 1080i mostly at first, but then will eventually head towards 1080p? So, initially the interlaced is what I want but Tiff says that progressive scan is better, so in the future I really want a HDTV with the best p capability? Is that right? And what is the cost difference (generally) between i and p or is there one? And how much more are the TV's with high capabilities on both?

    Another related question... say I get a HDTV before my PS3. How will this affect the look of games I already have (and future games) on my PS2? Are the PS2 games produced now and in the future being ramped up any for use with HDTV?
  • Chris S STAFF said:

    Another related question... say I get a HDTV before my PS3. How will this affect the look of games I already have (and future games) on my PS2? Are the PS2 games produced now and in the future being ramped up any for use with HDTV?

    I don't think it will help any new games. I am pretty sure that games must be pre-programed to be able to use hd functions. For example: Regular xbox games will say on the box if they support hdtv 480p or not. The ones which don't will not be hd regardless if you have the cables or not. Same thing with psone games, when you play them on your ps2 the graphics aren't any better.
  • This is not an answer to Chris' question, but I thought it was worth pointing out that all of the PS2 games will look much better when played on the PS3 console as it kind of converts the graphics so they can be viewed on a HDTV.

    Halo2 for the original xbox can be played on the xbox360 in HD and the very same game looks twice as good this way.

    So basically what I am saying here is that your old PS2 games will look much better on the PS3, giving you the incentive to play them again.
  • Jim B STAFF said:
    So basically what I am saying here is that your old PS2 games will look much better on the PS3, giving you the incentive to play them again.

    I figured that would happen. Just look at when you play old PSONE games on your PS2. They look better, but only if you first go into the triangle options setup thing and select Playstation games option and set auto-smoothing (or whatever is called) to on. If you don't do that then the games just look the same. Personally I've never been too sure if the PS2 DOES actually make PSONE games look better. It's been ages since I've played PSONE games on a Playstation (about 5 years or so now) so I've forgotten what they actually look like normally.
    Does setting that auto-smooth option thing to on actually make any difference? It was supposed to do.

    Anyway, what I'm getting at is this:
    Even though you'll be able to play PSONE and PS2 games opn your PS3, will the graphics look better? How much better? Will you have to set an option manually like you do with the PS2 or will it be set automatically to on/enabled/whatever?
    I'm still intrigued by this.